Robby on Rails

Edge Rails (or 1.2.3 with the simply_helpful plugin?) has the div_for method:

<% div_for @post do -%> #post_1 #post_new

<% div_for @post, :comments do -%>

1. comments_post_1
2. comments_post_new

As Rick says, idea 3: embrace conventions! If it’s a comment, the list of comments will have a div with id ‘comments’ and class ‘comments’. Each comment inside there will have id ‘comment_[id]’ and class ‘comment’.

So long as both sides of the team understand these conventions and create their own, as a team, for when there’s not already something there (eg for the number of comments returned in our current app, it turns up in a div with id ‘comments_count’), everybody’s happy and there are less of these surprises.

And for bonus points, it makes code everywhere that deals with views much cleaner and tidier. I’ve stopped disliking working on views since I started a couple of new projects on edge…

That would be idea 4, even. :-)

Wow. I’m glad to know that my designer and I aren’t the only ones having this problem. We started to write comments at the top of our views to list any html elements that shouldn’t be renamed. This isn’t a bad compromise and typing extra characters could be resolved with a simple textmate snipper.

Great idea!

Robby,

Wanted to follow up with another comment. What you’ve done is provide a framework agnostic remedy to this problem. I’m not exclusively working with railss right now and have a few freelance projects with a designer. Some are in php, rails, and a few older perl projects. We have been adding some ajax functionality to these older projects and this approach would work well in these other environments. Thanks again for the tip as I plan to get my designers thoughts on this right away. :)

Good Idea. We’ve been using the comment approach, which does get pretty lame.

I (as a developer) often run into the problem of when to write functional tests that depend on assert selects. Often times I’d like to do test first prototyping but then I get handed HTML with completly different div ids than I was expecting. In a perfect world, I’d start with that HTML first, but that doesn’t always happen.

Also – do your designers run the tests? Wouldn’t they be able to see that they broke functional tests? (Maybe in BDDland this works differently).

Thanks again.

rick, my biggest problem with Rails is that developers keep putting stuff into helpers, which forces me to have to render the page to see what value rails will put in the id value. this adds more time to my process and I don’t see how much this benefits yours. with the div_for approach, I have to read the rails api to figure out how to style it, which seems like a lot of extra steps when you’re just rendering a div tag. on several occasions, I’ve seen helpers take more code than their basic html counterparts. When I’ve mentioned this in the past, developers respond with this is a DRY approach, but clearly we cannot avoid duplication in html as there will surely be more than one div in the web page. correct?

Did you consider writing view specs which validated the existence of the various dom ids? While conventions are great, they aren’t necessarily enforceable. Executable specs with a continuous integration environment will quickly point out when something gets changed.

Did you consider reading all of my post?

Reading is so Web 1.0… Let me know when you’ve transcribed everything into a podcast! :-)

It’s for the issues you described, plus my growing disillusionment that Ajax actually does anything to enhance user experience, that I’m leaning towards idea 4:

Don’t use Ajax.

Yeah, you’re right robby and I didn’t mean to lead us down the path of debating the merits of Ajax, what do I want to briefly mention is that I’ve had some luck with judiciously pruning some of the Ajax in my apps, and I use the kind of issues you describe above as a code smell. The issues you lay out have nothing to do with Ajax itself simply the management of it, and it looks like you’ve found a good way to do it. I like to add an additional option of asking, “what if we just got rid of ajax here?”. Sometimes it helps…

If you use xhtml, you can create a new namespace for developers to mess around with rjs and javascript:

  <xhtml xmlns="xhml_ns..." xmlns:rails="my_dev_ns">
     <div id="for_css" rails:id="for_developers"></div>
  </xhtml>

But of course you need to adapt prototype to take care of the namespace in $() and $$() but it’s not a big deal.

I’m very wary of back-end developers enforcing ids on elements. TBH, I tend to make sure that on anything dynamic, :id is specificed. The fragilest coupling of all is coupling to things like Rails’ dynamic form id generation. Much better to define your own.

As regarding “straight” html elements that need to have certain ids… yes, i can there’s an issue there, and comments or convention are fine. Personally, I see no problem with ERb comments in moderation.

In an idea world, though, the person who breaks it can fix it. Hopefully, that should be the front-end developers making suitable changes to HTML and fixing up the Ajax/controller code to match.

I’m very wary of back-end developers enforcing ids on elements. TBH, I tend to make sure that on anything dynamic, :id is specificed. The fragilest coupling of all is coupling to things like Rails’ dynamic form id generation. Much better to define your own.

As regarding “straight” html elements that need to have certain ids… yes, i can there’s an issue there, and comments or convention are fine. Personally, I see no problem with ERb comments in moderation.

In an idea world, though, the person who breaks it can fix it. Hopefully, that should be the front-end developers making suitable changes to HTML and fixing up the Ajax/controller code to match.

With a naming convention like this one, One might concider patching RJS so that you can just do page[:notification_message] and have that translated to operate on the element with id x_notification_message.

good read. i do something similar, all js classes/ids are camelcased. everything else has – if needed. just as simple: anytime u see camelcase, there is more going on than a style.

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However, sometimes this breathing room has resulted in small bugs slipping into the application interface.

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